Saturday, September 14, 2013

Fishbowl #4: Chapters 17 and 18 of The Kite Runner

Welcome to your fourth fishbowl!

A few reminders if you're looking for an A for the day:

(A) Bring at least one quotation and/or page reference into at least one of your responses.
 
(B) Explain your thinking thoughtfully and thoroughly (try to avoid the one-sentence response).

(C) Keep it professional, including the usage of proper grammar and spelling.

(D) Comment frequently from the beginning of the conversation to the end.


Remember also that you're welcome to get into a hotseat in the inner circle for a little while and earn some of your daily participation points there.


Enjoy!

95 comments:

  1. Why did the author make Hassan die so brutally. On page 219 the killing is detailed. "So they took him to the street...and ordered him to kneel...And shot him in the back of the head."

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    1. I think they made the murder so brutal because Hassan was an important character and it sent a message to the reading letting us know that the Taliban were brutal.

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    2. I think they showed it so violently because he is a hazara, and it shows to the other people in the town or other hazaras that they shouldn't lie or disrespect the Taliban, even though Hassan didn't lie, the Taliban didn't believe him.

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    3. I think that the author did it like that was because Hassan is the one character we care more about that the main character Amir. We deserve to know every detail of Hassan's death

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    4. Well I don't know if it was as brutal as it could have been because that was how they executed all of the Hazaras but sometimes it was in large groups because on page 213 it says, "They massacred the Hazaras in Mazar-i-Sharif."

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    5. because Hassan was a hazara which is a lowlife in Afghanistan. The Taliban quoted. " Hazaras are not Muslim. you can kill them. it's not a sin."

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    6. I think that the author made Hassan die that way in order to give Amir reason to remember what he had done to Hassan and how that could have changed if he had not ruined their friendship in the first place. He now knows he needs to open up about all that he had done to Hassan. Amir now has the potential to redeem himself by making sure Hassan's son has the ability to grow up in a good life and have a happy life, because that is what Hassan wanted most and to Hassan that would be more than enough for Amir to redeem himself.

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    7. I agree with Carter, because Amir and Hassan's friendship was strong before Hassan got raped and after that things changed but I think Amir feels the regret and wants to re-pay him by taking great care of Hassan's son.

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  2. I don't think that Amir is very loyal. If he really was honest and loyal he wouldn't have done nothing when Hassan was being raped and he wouldn't have Framed Hassan.

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    1. If Amir had known that Hassan was his brother then he probably would have stood by Hassan, and he probably wouldn't have allowed Assef to rape him.

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    2. I think, because they were young at the time, Amir really couldn't do nothing to help because Assef has people behind him and instead of raping, they both could have been murdered.

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  3. After Amir read the note, do you think he found forgiveness? Or by finding Hassans son his only way of finding redemption?

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    1. I think that he found forgiveness by finding Hassan's son as it symbolizes that Amir is still trying to make things right with Hassan

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    2. I don't think that the note really showed forgiveness, it just showed that Hassan wanted to reach out to Amir, but not necessarily forgive him.

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  4. what exactly does this quote mean? "And I dream that someday you will return to Kabul to revisit the land of our childhood. If you do, you will find an old faithful friend waiting for you." page 218.

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    1. It means that he when he goes back to Kabul he will find Hassan there waiting for him.

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  5. I Agree with the discuses because hazaras were the low hated ones. So i think that yeah ali didn't want people to know he was his son because he didn't want to be segregated against.

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  6. What events might Hassan's death spark?

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  7. I dont understand why Farhid beat up the Zimen at the end of chapter 18. Was Farhid sold as an orphan when he was a small child?

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  8. page 219 the killing is detailed. "So they took him to the street...and ordered him to kneel...And shot him in the back of the head." from this i got that the author made it so graphic for the fact that he wanted us to see the pain he is facing all in all of it

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  9. On page 222 it is explaining how Hassan isn't Ali's child, he is actually Baba's. Do you think that Amir will ever forgive everyone gor lying to him? And also do you believe that Amir will ever accept it?

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  10. How does Amir feel now after hearing the tragic news about Hassan?

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    1. I think he feels regret. On page 219 all Amir could say was,"No. No. No." I think Amir cant wrap his head around that Hassan is actually gone.

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  11. also another quote that i have would be. Rahim Khan says, "And why you? I think we both know why it has to be you, don't we?" page 221. what does this quote mean

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  12. On page 219, chapter 17, they describe Hassan's death. Rahim Khan say " So they took him to the street....and ordered him to kneel...and shot him in the back of the head." I was wondering what Amir is going to do in responds to this. Will he attempt retaliation toward the Taliban? What will he do about his guilt? He must feel horrible for not admitting or apologizing for betraying Hassan.

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    1. I don't think that he is going to go out and seek revenge, I think he is going to feel guilty. Amir never got a chance to apologize to Hassan, and Hassan had been killed for who he was and Amir couldn't do anything about it. Amir feels guilty for not being to ever help Hassan and not being able to apologize.

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  13. Patric:
    I think thats a touching question. I understand that like Hassan and Amir were friends and how some bad things happened. So I think that he could of said anything to him but its hard to understand what he would have said before Hassan died.

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  14. To Patrick's question what do you think Amir would of said to Hassan if Hassan was his brother dying. I think that Amir would of been closer and, everything would of changed. Hassan might of never been raped and there relationship would of been 10x closer. I think having a friend is way different than having a sibling.

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  15. On page 215 when the letter starts it says "Amir agha, with my deepest respects," We learned that agha is a word of respect, and Hassan is saying with his deepest respects. Do think after reading this that Hassan has forgiven Amir for what he did to him?

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    1. Yes I do believe that forgiveness was made.

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  16. After Hassan dies, Amir knows that he can never apologize or atone for his sins. This must make all of the progress, that he has made since the incident in Kabul where Hassan was raped, seem pointless.

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    1. i don't think that it made it seem pointless, I think that it make him feel like bad because he never apologized and he had plenty of chances to do it, but he waited for too long.

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  17. Why do you think they kept who Hassan's real mom was from Amir and Hassan like Amir found out at the end of chapter 17? Why did they have to keep this from the both of them in the first place?

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  18. I believe that Baba is in a very hard place right now. There is a lot going on between him and amir that must hurt in some way, because he wants to feel proud of his son but he can't because of his cowardice truth that resides in his personality. It's something that can't change about amir and it just must be hard for baba to not have the son that he wanted. But I feel that baba has a sense of pride for amir because Amir is really trying all that he can to be a better kid.

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  19. On page 222 it is explaining how Hassan isn't Ali's child, he is actually Baba's. Do you think that Amir will ever forgive everyone gor lying to him? And also do you believe that Amir will ever accept it?

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    1. I think Amir excepted that Hassan was his brother before he knew that they were actually brothers.

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    2. Amir will forgive Rahim because Amir knows what it is like to not be forgiven so Amir is gonna forgive him.

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  20. on page 225 "There is only one sin. And that is theft...When you tell a lie, you steal someone's right to the truth." What is baba try to say? Did he do crime?

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  21. First of all, (like Paul and Jeff said) why would the author make Hassan die the way he did? And why was the wife shot as well? Was it because she was related and so they had to shoot her?

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  22. Amir calls Rahim names, because he feels Baba, Rahim, and Ali have betrayed and lied to him and Hassan.

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  23. And I dream that someday you will return to Kabul to revisit the land of our childhood. If you do, you will find an old faithful friend waiting for you." page 218. whe n i read this quote i thought that he misses his friend or the guy he thinks is his friend and he wonders if he will be there when he reterns

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  24. I think that Amir will end up adopting Hassan's son and this is how he will alleviate his guilt of letting Hassan get raped. What do you predict will happen

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  25. On page 221 it says "And why you? I think we both know why it has to be you, don't we?" Do you think Amir is gonna go "save" Hassans son so that he can feel forgiven for what he did?

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  26. Danny:
    I think that Amir would have helped Hassan if he knew that he was his brother. It would had been a whole different story if he knew that was his brother. He loved Hassan but its always a better relationship with a brother not a friend.

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    1. That being said, is it Baba's fault for lying about it? Because if Baba hadn't lied about Hassan being Amir's brother (pg 222) than maybe that would never have happened.

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  27. do you think amir feels sad that hassan died since they have been good friends for a long time

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    1. Yeah of coarse cause now he has no way of finding forgiveness. Also, now knowing that they were related Amir must be sad

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    2. Yes his best friend just died and Hassan also forgave Amir as well.

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  28. -How does Amir fixing the brass ball on the table resemble his own life? Could it be because the easy fix to the the table is what Amir wishes he could do with his life?

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  29. Why do you think Rahim Khan said," I remeber he said to me,' Rahim a boy who wont stand up for himself becomes a man who cant stand up to anything.' I wonder, is that what you have become?"

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    1. I think that Rahim Khan was making Amir feel guilty so that he would carry out his wish? "'What I'm asking from you is to grant an old man his dying wish." (pg 221). He was using Amir's constant attempts to impress Baba to try to get him to do what he thinks he needs to do.

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  30. On page 219 it says "I kept thinking of that day in 1974, in the hospital room, just after Hassan's harelip surgery. Baba, Rahim Khan, Ali, and I had huddled around Hassan's bed, watched him examine his new lip in a handheld mirror. Now everyone in that room was either dead or dying. Except for me." Why was Amir thinking about that? Was Hassan not feeling dead, because he didn't care what Hassaned look liked, because they were friends? Or was it because he didn't care to him he was just friends with a Hazaras?

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  31. Is it Baba and Rahim Khan's fault as well now that Amir knows they lied to him all these years (pg 222-223) that Amir and Hassan's relationship ended? Was that one lie the thing that led to Hassan leaving Amir and ending in Hassan's death?

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  32. This is such a tragedy in the book. I am so saddened to see the death of Hassan. After all the hardships that he has overcome, I feel this is truly evil to take his poor sweet life. I really think he deserved at least some happiness in his life because of all his suffering that he overcame. Sorrow simply overwhelmed my heart when I saw the death and I think the author really played a great factor on our emotions when doing this.

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    1. I think he had happiness. He had a loving wife, a son that he adored. He met his mother. I think he died happy. What saddened him was knowing his son is left in a cruel world all alone.

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  33. Answer to Danny's question: I think Amir, even though he is a coward, he would still watch what would happen to his brother. I don't see a coward changing based on who is getting raped. If it were my brother I would definitely step in and help. Why would you let that happen to your brother?

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  34. I agree with Danny the rape wouldn't of happened because Amir would of jumped in and saved his brother.

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  35. I think Amir would have still been a coward and let the rape happen even if he knew that Hassan was his brother. I don't think Amir would have changed his actions until he had already gone through the incident. Watching Hassan get raped is the biggest event in Amir's life, and I think its what changed him.

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  36. On page 225 How had Ali lived in that house, day in and day out, knowing he had been dishonored by his master in the single worst way an Afghan man can be dishonored?

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  37. How does Amirs attitude change towards Baba after he figures out about his lies?

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  38. On page 217 Hassan says "I am a very proud, and very lucky father." Does this make the situation with Amir worse because Amir and his wife can't have kids.

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  39. Responding to Danny I think that early in the book like on page 46 when it says, "The surgery went well." Baba was kind of favoring Hassan over Amir because he knew that Hassan was his son and that is part of the reason he payed for the lip surgery for Hassan. I think that he also knew that Hassan was more like him and that is why Baba was favoring him over Amir who wasn't like Baba at all because he wasn't athletic or wasn't into sports and stuff as much as Hassan was.

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  40. Baba had to be harder on Amir than he did on Hassan because he wanted Amir to be successful and brave.

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  41. To Toms question, I think that Amir was Babas favorite child because Amir was raised as Babas son, and Hassan wasn't. I think Baba loved them both, but raising Amir would have made him the favorite child. It was harder for Amir to gain Babas respect then it was for Hassan because Baba was a lot harder on Amir then he was on Hassan.

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  42. Tom
    Amir was his favorite child I think because he has different personalities that are better than Hassan. But that doesn't mean that that he doesn't like Hassan it just means that he had to be harder on Amir.

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  43. Does Hassans death make Amir feel much more guilt than he used to.

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    1. Probably because he never truly talked to him and they ended on a bad term so he probably feels the guilt really bad.

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    2. No I don't think so because Hassan forgave Amir but i'm sure he still feels somewhat guilty.

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    3. Yes, and he is going to go "save" his son so that he doesn't feel so guilty.

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  44. Answer to Tom: I think in the beginning it seemed Baba showed more affection to Hassan based on what Baba did as a kid and what Hassan is like as a kid. But after Amir won over Baba, from the kite tournament, Baba showed equal if not more affection to Amir because of that. He showed more affection probably because Baba thought his son is changing, and actually like him as a kid, and not wanting to read.

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  45. I don't understand why Baba could hide this secret, not even a secret. He should be happy that he has a great son like Hassan, is it a disgrace to have another kid with another woman in Afghanistan??? What was his motive to keep this terrible secret from Hassan, Amir, and himself?

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  46. Will Amir ever have to face Assef and the others in the near future? Were they part of the Taliban and did they end up killing Hassan?

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  47. On page 226 "We had both betrayed the people who would have given their lives for us." I think this is a significant quote because its saying that people make mistakes in their lives and you just have to recover from them

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  48. The Taliban shot and killed Hassan because of the fact that he is a Hazara. The Taliban think of Hazaras as lesser peoples, and they killed him out of hate for his race.

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  49. Answer to Toms question about the Taliban. Hassan was killed by them because he was a Hazara living in a large house in Kabul. The Taliban does not believe Hazaras should be in Afghanistan so they shot Hassan.

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  50. It seems that Amir had plenty of chances to apologize to Hassan for what he did when they were children, however he waited to long to apologize to Hassan. Hassan died before he got the chance, how do you think this makes Amir feel after another important person in his life died?

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  51. Class: Why do you think that Baba hid, Hassan being his son?

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  52. When Hassan died it brought about bad luck to amir, I think something horrible is going to happen to someone else close to amir besides hassan. Maybe his wife will be murdered or something will happen that will result in her pain, or maybe even his. Both Hassan and Amir had some hardships over the years but the fact that hassan had died is pretty saddening.

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  53. Will the fact that Amir now knows that him and Hassan are brothers, will this change his mind to go on the quest and find his nephew? (Hassan's son)

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    1. No, I think he wants to find him even more. I think, knowing that Amir cant have a son I think he will be redeeming himself for not stopping the rape, and being not able to bare a child. That way he can raise Hassans son the way Hassan wanted and they can all be happy.

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    2. Yes I do think that this will be an event in the future of the book because otherwise the really wouldn't mention that. They are setting up a plot for later.

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  54. Do you think chapter 17 is the climax of the book since hassan died

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    1. Yes because i do not know what else could happen. Everyone is dead.

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  55. Why do you think everyone in Afghanistan was happy that the Taliban came and took over? I mean the Taliban is basically like a dictatorship.

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  56. I definitely agree with what you said about Amir having different types of affection toward Hassan and Amir. I think that Baba loved each for different reasons, but because he felt like he couldn't express that love toward Hassan as much made him feel like he had to be nice some how because he couldn't call Hassan his own. Sort of to make it equal. But it seemed like Baba was less affectionate toward Amir, would that be because he was still blaming Amir for his wife's death, and that is what drove him to have an affair? Or was it a completely different situation?

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  57. I think that the taliban killed Hassan out of the hatetread of the Hazzaras and didn't just kill him for no reason. They think of the hazaras as less people and garabage.

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  58. "They named him sohrab, after Hassans favorite hero" I think this is interesting because Hassan maybe knew that he was going to die and I like the fact that he decided to name him after a childhood superhero, in a way its carrying on his legacy from when he was a child, and basically having his son was him being born again. Its very warming that he would name his child this and there are a lot of connections that go with it.

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  59. I think that because of Hassan's death, Amir will feel more powered to fight back against the killers and he might be able to step up and defend himself finally.

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  60. Do you think the way the Taliban treated the Hazaras was similar to how the Nazis treated the Jews? DO think the author tried to make it seem that way?

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  61. I wonder if Assef is apart of the Taliban? Because of what Tom said about him making the Hitler comments and racist jokes and not liking the Hazaras at all, and what he did to Hassan. Did the Taliban recruit him? Or did he join them?

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  62. On page 227, it says "Hassan had loved me once, loved me in a way that no one ever had or ever would again. He was gone now, but a little part of him lived on. It was in Kabul. Waiting." I think this shows how sad Amir is that his childhood friend and brother is now gone, and theres nothing that Amir can do about it.

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  63. Answer to Dannys question. The perspective of the Taliban is changing because people were excited they came, and now people are afraid because the Taliban has killed innocent people.

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  64. As a society we hate to talk about the presence of evil, bit in this novel I think we can see the true existence of it. Though the keen eyes of Amir we see the pain and the suffering that human beings can experience, the loss of friends and the death of loved ones. In this novel we see how cruel this world really can be.

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  65. " Hazaras are not Muslim. You can kill them.
    It is not a sin." What does this show us about the Musslim people and how we look at them. How does this affect Hassan?

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